Michael Moore has been barking out loud in the news again lately. His recent stupidity prompting discussion on Mefi. Here are a few links you might be amused by…
- Other posts on this blog… post 1, post 2
- Michael Moore Hates America – looks like a cool project/film. Check the trailer!
- moorelies.com — truth and justice in reporting on michael moore
And here are my posts, just to save ’em…. (minor format and spelling fixes)
posted by soulhuntre at 2:05 AM EST on May 8
“”Moore … shocked the crowd at North London’s Roundhouse Theater a couple of weeks ago by ranting that passengers on plans hijacked on Sept. 11 were ‘scaredy-cats because they were mostly white.’” NY Post, Jan. 8, 2003
“Forbes reports that an early scene in “Bowling” in which Mr. Moore tries to demonstrate how easy it is to obtain guns in America was staged. He goes to a small bank in Traverse City, Mich., that offers various inducements to open an account and claims “I put $1,000 in a long-term account, they did the background check, and, within an hour, I walked out with my new Weatherby,” a rifle.
But Jan Jacobson, the bank employee who worked with Mr. Moore on his account, says that only happened because Mr. Moore’s film company had worked for a month to stage the scene. “What happened at the bank was a prearranged thing,” she says. The gun was brought from a gun dealer in another city, where it would normally have to be picked up. “Typically, you’re looking at a week to 10 days waiting period,” she says. Ms. Jacobson feels used: “He just portrayed us as backward hicks.” – quote context
“David Hardy, a former Interior Department lawyer who delights in debunking government officials and pompous celebrities, has uncovered even more evidence of Mr. Moore’s distortions. The film depicts NRA president Charlton Heston giving a speech near Columbine; he actually gave it a year later and 900 miles away. The speech he did give is edited to make conciliatory statements sound like rudeness. Another speech is described as being given immediately after the Flint shooting .” – quote context
links to more info…
posted by soulhuntre at 2:07 AM EST on May 8
Last quote…
In print, too, Mr. Moore plays fast and loose with the facts. In his “Stupid White Men,” his best-selling book, he blithely states that five-sixths of the U.S. defense budget in 2001 went toward the construction of a single type of plane and that two-thirds of the $190 million that President Bush raised in his 2000 campaign came from just over 700 individuals, a preposterous assertion given that the limit for individual contributions at the time was $1,000.
When CNN’s Lou Dobbs asked Mr. Moore about his inaccuracies, he shrugged off the quesiton. “You know, look, this is a book of political humor. So, I mean, I don’t respond to that sort of stuff, you know,” he said.
“Glaring inaccuracies?” Mr. Dobbs said.
“No, I don’t. Why should I? How can there be inaccuracy in comedy?” – quote context
posted by soulhuntre at 3:22 PM EST on May 8
“The bank scene wasn’t faked. Nothing was prepared beforehand. “
It was faked. There is no method the bank could use to legally give those weapons away in an “end run” around the laws of the state regarding gun purchase… and nothing in the ad indicates this. In fact, “instant interest” is in quotes.
Given the legal situation and the quotes of the bank employees, Moore will have to come up with something more substantial to back up his claim on this. More info is here.
“The Heston speech was in Denver and it was 10 days after the killings.”
Again, the transcript has no date in it, and nothing in it indicates a time period. Of course the real problem is that in BFC Moore splices from several separate NRA events…
“After this, we hear Moore telling us, ominously, that “just 10 days after the Columbine mass murders Heston came to Denver and held a large pro-gun rally.”
The distortion is nauseatingly extreme. Heston’s “cold dead hands” speech, which leads off Moore’s depiction of the Denver meeting, was not given at Denver in defiance to Columbine.” – more info and much more info
Look, Moores a flake. He plays faster and looser with facts than Rush does (Rush doesn’t put out movies that I know of) and if it was someone on the right doing it you’d have a cow.
You want to defend him, go for it. But be honest in what your defending. Just say “I don’t care about the facts, the end justifies the means!”
posted by soulhuntre at 9:07 PM EST on May 8
Well, thanks for proving the point of how far afield Moore really is, and how he manages to convince his followers.
Quote: “There’s no denying that. I think that was the large point about that whole piece – that right after the Columbine murders and in deference to thousands of people protesting him not to come, Heston comes to wave guns in the people’s faces. Fucking obnoxious.”
Thats the slant… now here’s the reality…
Quote: Fact: At Denver, the NRA cancelled all events (normally several days of committee meetings, sporting events, dinners, and rallies) save the annual members’ voting meeting — that could not be cancelled because the state law governing nonprofits required that it be held. [No way to change location, since under NY law you have to give 10 days’ advance notice of that to the members, there were upwards of 4,000,000 members — and Columbine happened 11 days before the scheduled meeting.] As a newspaper reported:
In a letter to NRA members Wednesday, President Charlton Heston and the group’s executive vice president, Wayne LaPierre, said all seminars, workshops, luncheons, exhibits by gun makers and other vendors, and festivities are canceled.
All that’s left is a members’ reception with Rep. J.C. Watts, R-Okla., and the annual meeting, set for 10 a.m. May 1 in the Colorado Convention Center.
Under its bylaws and New York state law, the NRA must hold an annual meeting.
The NRA convention April 30-May 2 was expected to draw 22,000 members and give the city a $17.9 million economic boost.
“But the tragedy in Littleton last Tuesday calls upon us to take steps, along with dozens of other planned public events, to modify our schedule to show our profound sympathy and respect for the families and communities in the Denver area in their time of great loss,” Heston and LaPierre wrote. – quote
So, the NRA dropped the vast majority of the events at the time, but in order to comply with corporate law HAD to hold an annual meeting and couldn’t move it. The quote Moore leads off with (cold, dead hands) was NOT given at that event, but more than a year later.
Yet Moore still manages to convince millions that the NRA held a rally to “wave guns in people faces”. He’s good at his job, no doubt about it.
Quote: “Did he use the footage from another rally for the “cold dead hands” clip? No. Does it matter? Not really.”
I’ll assume you meant to type “Yes” to the “Did he use…” part – because he did. Does it matter? Well no, unless you care about reality.
Quote: “In the film, the bank states that it has its own vault storing about 500 weapons at any given time.”
Quote: “Jacobson says the movie is misleading because it leaves the impression that a person can come in, sign up and walk out with a gun. But, this is not done because no guns are kept at her bank, although one would think so. She says that ordinarily a person entitled to one of the long-guns must go to a gun-dealer where the gun is shipped.
In fact, despite what BFC wants us to believe, Jacobson says there are no long-guns at her bank. The 500 guns mentioned in the movie are in a vault four hours away. But wait a second… Didn’t I see some long guns sitting right there on the rack above her shoulder? Yes – you’re not going crazy – those guns you saw (as shown in the picture up the page) are models.
She says that Moore’s signing papers in the film was just for show. His immediately walking out of the bank with a long-gun was allowed because “this whole thing was set up two months prior to the filming of the movie” when he had already complied with all the rules, including a background check.” – quote
posted by soulhuntre at 2:59 PM EST on May 9
“Does corporate law overwhelm any sort of dignity they might have?”
So they should have what then? Left the legality of the whole corporation in jeopardy? Sparked a potential nightmare or litigation? To what purpose?
How is holding a private meeting, that no one except those who wished could attend, “rubbing” anyone’s face in anything?
Of course, the idea that you can blame the NRA for the massacre is itself insane, and exactly the sort of thing the NRA itself (a political organization) is fighting.
So not only should they have caused millions (at least) in legal problems but they should have allowed themselves to be run out of town entirely to placate misguided people who somehow blame them for the insane acts of their own youth?
They came to the best compromise possible. You don’t like it… that’s fine. But the fact remains that Moore deliberately mislead his viewers about it. He’s a liar. Those who still defend him for being a liar should at least be honest about it.
posted by soulhuntre at 10:08 PM EST on May 9
“Would you have a meeting about bomb-making in Oklahoma right after the Oklahoma City attacks?”
The analogy would be more accurately would you have a fertilizer convention. Because the NRA meeting certainly wasn’t about “how to gun down humans as they flee in horror”.
“Nobody blamed the killings on the NRA, particularly not Moore. If you saw the movie you’d know that.”
They you saw a different movie than I did, and that Moore made. He specifically DID attempt to lay blame on the NRA and the “culture” he feels they represent.
What did you think the movie was about anyway?