Well, there was some more amusement on the mailing lists today. As I waited to solve a client problem (seriously bad stuff) I had time to catch up. Here was another post.

I am going to remove the words and ID of the user who forwarded the email to the list, but the quotations I am replying to are from a letter that appears to be widely and publicly circulated by email and not those of the poster themselves… thus I will nor paraphrase or protect them.

Posted by: “soulhuntre” to BLI_Politickin at Thu, 1 Jul 2004 16:16:00

Hey,

You know, I normally ignore silliness like this … but I’ll take it on ’cause I am bored. I may use some harsh language here – it is not directed at [ snipped ] since I am fairly certain she did not author this list. The “you” mentioned in my reply is generic.

> -_-_-Original Message-_-_-
> From: [ snipped ]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 3:11 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [BLI_Politickin] Definition of a “Conservative?”
>
> 1. Being a drug addict is a moral failing and a crime, unless you’re a
> conservative radio host. Then it’s an illness and you need our prayers
> for your recovery.

I’ll call “bullshit” on this one. But then again, so few of the people who make these lists really pay attention to reality.

Rush became addicted to prescription pain killers. Pain killers that at the time he was addicted to them were >still being prescribed legally by a physician<. If you look at the conservative attitudes to addiction you will often see that those who have a substance problem but are in most other ways productive and non criminal are often treated with compassion.

Rush has, in the past, shown sympathy for those with similar problems.
What Rush (and myself I might add) consider a moral failing is being an unemployed drug addict who commits crime to feed his habit while ignoring all personal responsibility and whining about how it’s the fault of society.

> 2. The United States should get out of the United Nations, and our
highest
> national priority is enforcing U.N. resolutions against Iraq.

Bullshit again 🙂

The US should not “get out” of the UN, we should recognize that they are a biased tool that can be used for good or ill. We should not allow our internal policy to be dictated by them, nor should we support UN positions we disagree with.

I don’t know of anyone who has said that enforcing the UN resolutions were our highest priority. I >DO< know many people who have mentioned that the invasion of Iraq was important to our national policy and that BTW since the UN itself authorized the use of force we are tired of hearing people complain about our doing so.

There is nothing wrong at all with looking to the UN for aid when it can be of value and ignoring it when it contradicts our purposes. Welcome to global politics – every single nation on earth always has and always will do this.

> 3. Government should relax regulation of Big Business and Big Money
but
> crack down on individuals who use marijuana to relieve the pain of
illness.

I am confused about the juxtaposition of this… but that seems to be wha people on the left (ala M. Moore) do best, pretend things go together that simply do not.

Although I agree with the medical use of marijuana in some cases I also recognize that it is currently illegal and that the movement to legalize it is being hijacked and misused by a pro-drug lobby that sees it as a stepping stone to broad legalization.

I also happen to support the relaxation of some of the more insane and restrictive and un-needed laws that keep corporations from conducting legitimize business.

Tell me again why these positions are somehow at odds with each other?

> 4. “Standing Tall for America”; means firing your workers and moving
their
> jobs to India.

Ah, the smell of straw man in the morning!

Business represent the financial interests of its owners and stockholders foremost. That is why they exist. I fail to see what would be patriotic about continuing to pay more than you have to for labor and being driven into bankruptcy “for America”.

> 5. A woman can’t be trusted with decisions about her own body, but
multi-
> national
> corporations can make decisions affecting all mankind without
regulation.

Sorry, that’s not the conservative viewpoint either.

The issue of abortion is specifically NOT (in the minds of those who oppose it) about what a woman does with her body – but what they feel she is doing to someone else’s body. If you believe that a fetus is a human and deserves the protections of one then allowing a woman to have an abortion is allowing her to chose, at her own whim, to kill another human being.

That’s not really the same thing at all.

BTW – Lots of people get to make decisions that might effect “all mankind” without regulation. Corporations are no different 🙂

> 6. Jesus loves you, and shares your hatred of homosexuals and Hillary
> Clinton.

As not nearly all Republicans or conservatives are religious fundamentalists I fail to see the connection here. Hey, let me try one!

“Remember that your inner goddess loves all living things as you sabotage logging equipment in ways designed to kill humans who are trying to make a living”.

> 7. The best way to improve military morale is to praise the troops in
> speeches while slashing veterans’ benefits and combat pay.

In a perfect world there would be infinite resources to raise all programs the government might want to do. Of course that a pay raise for “the troops” would never pass the congress isn’t an issue – let’s just blame the GOP 🙂

> 8. Group sex and drug use are degenerate sins unless you someday run
for
> governor of California as a Republican.

Query? Care to back any of that up? Oh, wait! You might be talking about Arnold? If so I believe he has commented on that and mentioned that it wasn’t something he was proud of condoned.

Can I try one of these too?

“Call the president inattentive due to the time he spends out of the White House while simultaneously dismissing as irrelevant using the presidency as an excuse to get blown under your desk on the job”.

> 9. If condoms are kept out of schools, adolescents won’t have sex.

Bzzt. Wrong again. That isn’t even close to the conservative viewpoint that has any significant following.

What >is< a common conservative belief is that instruction on sexual acts without presenting any moral context will increase the sexual activity levels among or youth.

> 10. A good way to fight terrorism is to belittle our long-time allies,
> then demand their cooperation and money.

Clue me in on which “long time allies” we belittled who were being supportive of our policies at the time we may have been less than nice to them.

If you intend to mention France or Germany you shouldn’t bother 🙂

> 11. HMOs and insurance companies have the interest of the public at
heart.

Again, that is not the point of view at all. The POV is that private; profit driven industries have always shown that they emerge as the most efficient way to provide just about anything on a large scale. The net quality of care in every nation with socialized health care is markedly lower than in the US.

Properly watchdogged it isn’t relevant if the HMO has the best interests of the public at heart – the beauty of the free market is that the purchasers will force the companies to meet the needs of their market – and thus shape the supply to the demand.

Government run health care has neither the interests of the public at heart OR the efficiencies generated by competition.

> 12. Providing health care to all Iraqis is sound policy. Providing
health
> care to all Americans is socialism.

Iraq is a nation without a functioning free market and a population smaller than the US. Further if we had invaded them and >NOT< provided universal health care there would have been a vicious attack by the “world community” complete with statistics of how many poor Iraqi’s were dying from lack of medical care.

It would have been IMPOSSIBLE for that time and place to demand private payment of health care. No one had money, no infrastructure existed to make money and no structure existed to track and collect it.

I don’t think that a policy of humanitarian health care to a country we invaded until they actually have a government and a market of their own is in any way analogous to whether or not the nation with the most vigorous and wealthy economy on the planet can have it’s health care needs met privately.

Say it with me “Short term humanitarian gesture” and “Long term socialist boondoggle”.

> 13. Global warming and tobacco’s link to cancer are junk science, but
> creationism should be taught in schools.

Well the “global warming” thing is more religion than science anyway – but lets pretend that isn’t so for a moment 🙂

Again, I know of no one, conservative or liberal, who buys into the creationism thing. The views of a insane minority are not those of a whole political party.

This is a good thing when the more insane people in the liberal camp are so openly happy or dismissive over the deliberate murder of the US.

I’m going to try one…

“Claim that all human life is to be protected when rallying against corporations, but dismiss the deliberate murder of thousands of US citizens on 9/11 as something you don’t think we should be all worked up about” (that’s M. Moore we are talking about in there)

> 14. Saddam was a good guy when Reagan armed him, a bad guy when Bush’s
> daddy made war on him, a good guy when Cheney did business with
him
> and a bad guy when Bush needed a “we can’t find Bin Laden” diversion.

Saddam is a useful tool when he is under control and capable of suppressing threats more pressing and dangerous than himself – and he is not useful or to be tolerated when his usefulness is over.

You know, the liberals amuse me on this. The policies they claim now to hate (arming dictators, funding revolutions and so on) were the ONLY method short of full invasion the US often had to keep itself safe. Now that we have switched to the side of simply declaring open war and taking overt military action they aren’t happy about that either.

> 15. A president lying about an extramarital affair is an impeachable
> offense. A president lying to enlist support for a war in which
thousands die is solid defense policy.

When G. W. lies under oath on a matter of fact and not opinion I will be happy to discuss impeachment.

> 16. Government should limit itself to the powers named in the
> Constitution, which include banning gay marriages and censoring the
Internet.

Talk to the left about censorship. Much, much more momentum for censorship is on the Democratic/left side of the isle than on the right.
Seems to me that that stupidity is bi-partisan.

BTW – marriage is not listed in the constitution at all and thus is a matter to be decided by the states, the position held by most conservatives I know.

> 17. The public has a right to know about Hillary’s cattle trades, but
> George Bush’s driving record is none of our business.

When investigating allegations of influence purchasing a judge may decide that financial records are fair game. Other than that public information is public, and private is private.

When I meet a conservative who actually cares about both Bush’s driving record and Hillarie’s bank account I’ll ask them to explain the apparent conflict.

> 18. You support states’ rights, which means Attorney General John
Ashcroft
> can tell states what local voter initiatives they have a right to
adopt.

States right’s are fully supported unless the conflict with national legal or electoral issues. Surely you see that reality correct?

Let me try one:

“You support state rights when they allow you to raise taxes and create social programs but want the federal government to strike down those state laws you don’t like”

> 19. What Bill Clinton did in the 1960s is of vital national interest,
but
> what Bush did in the ’80s is irrelevant.

Again, aside from the normal political mud slinging I have yet to find anyone who really believes either of those things.

> 20. Trade with Cuba is wrong because the country is communist, but
trade
> with China and Vietnam is vital to a spirit of international harmony.

Something can be both wrong and vital 🙂 Hell, something’s are both at the same time. I know, it’s a fairly sophisticated concept 🙂

Soulhuntre