{"id":50806,"date":"2002-01-19T10:12:56","date_gmt":"2002-01-19T10:12:56","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.soulhuntre.com\/items\/date\/2002\/01\/19\/punishment-and-correction\/"},"modified":"2002-01-19T10:12:56","modified_gmt":"2002-01-19T10:12:56","slug":"punishment-and-correction-2","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/legacyiamsenseiken.local\/2002\/01\/19\/punishment-and-correction-2\/","title":{"rendered":"Punishment and Correction\u2026"},"content":{"rendered":"

Punishment and Correction in the Training and Shaping of Human Tools [Draft 1]<\/b><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Introduction<\/b><\/u><\/p>\n

\n

I am fairly active inside the BDSM community, both online and off and am often a witness or participant in discussions and debates on a wide variety of topics. Often I comment on these in a  shortened form by posting a reply on the appropriate list or speaking out during a class or lecture. At other times I find it more convenient to comment in a longer or less transient form. This is one of those times.<\/p>\n

\n

When the topic of punishment comes up in relation to BDSM there is often a sentiment that outside of erotic play punishment is neither desirable nor necessary in the processes and protocols that govern a relationship or household.<\/i><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

In order for me to discuss punishment in this document, it is necessary for me to lay out the concept of punishment as I<\/i><\/b> discuss, understand and use it.<\/p>\n

\n

Definition: Punishment is the application of negative consequences in such a way as to show disapproval or reprimand. It often has as it’s goal the alteration of the perceptions and responses of it’s target to make substantive changes in their thoughts or actions in the future.<\/b><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

Some dominants further subdivide punishment into those consequences that do not imply reprimand for the intentions of the submissive but only the actions. I do not make such a distinction internally; however my punishments for incorrect intentions is much more severe than my punishments for incorrect decisions or actions.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

<\/p>\n

Context \/ Argument<\/b><\/u><\/p>\n

\n

It seems to me that there is a growing trend in BDSM to believe that the only reasonable relationships in BDSM are those where the demands placed on the submissive are not outside of their skills, temperament or desires. In such relationships there may be orders that go against the momentary wishes of the submissive but they are essentially well writhing the narrowly defined area of  orders that the submissives in question “agree with”.<\/p>\n

Whether this requirement for agreement by the submissive is overt or not changes from relationship to relationship. Also highly variable is the issue of whether these constraints are a limitation that the dominant notices or is concerned with. It is not inherently wrong or bad for these limits to be in place; it is simply a factor that touches upon this topic.<\/p>\n

In addition to the above arguments we come across those submissives who have, they will insist, never been punished and never needed to be punished. That there has never in their service been a situation where they disobeyed an order or made a mistake that was not a simple “innocent error”.  When such an error occurs all that is needed is to explain the right thing to them and the mistake will never be repeated.<\/p>\n

I will not go into a lengthy discussion at this point on my views of most of those who make this claim. I will simply point out what I see as the common threads that seem to run in relationships and discussions where the submissives are “perfect”:<\/p>\n

\n
    \n
  1. \n

    an “adult” submissive does not need to be “treated like a child” <\/p>\n

  2. \n

    most submissives punish themselves more than their dominant could <\/p>\n

  3. \n

    a submissive that is disobedient and needs to be punished is probably not committed to the relationship, or suited to submission <\/p>\n

  4. \n

    punishment doesn’t work – haven’t you seen “the studies”? <\/p>\n

  5. \n

    if the demands place upon a submissive are always within their current set of skills or behaviors then they will appear to be perfectly obedient. <\/p>\n

  6. \n

    if all lapses in obedience or result are simply dismissed as human error or innocent mistake then the submissive will again appear perfectly obedient. <\/p>\n<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<\/blockquote>\n

    It is fairly obvious to me at least when the above list is made clear where the flaws are in these arguments. <\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

    Some Background<\/b><\/u><\/p>\n

    \n

    The brain is a complex organ and one that is only recently becoming less opaque. A working model of how we make decisions, how we think in fact, is only now showing itself to match the experimental evidence coming from laboratories studying the physical structures of our brains.<\/p>\n

    In short, the human brain appears to be a large network of neurons that are free to form connections to each other arbitrarily in three dimensions. These connections can be strong or weak depending on the requirements of the information being encoded. The more often something is done the same way by the brain the more permanent the connections creating that reflex become. Eventually these connections become so strong that it becomes very difficult for that response to be altered. Anything that does not have an applicable pathway must be dealt with by the conscious mind at a great expense of time and energy.<\/p>\n

    This model of consciousness and response is proving to be so valuable that it is being used as a way to enable computers to learn to perform extremely complex tasks. The technical term for such software is a “neural network”. Sound familiar? <\/p>\n

    An example is the act of catching a ball<\/u>:<\/p>\n

    \n

     When you first tried it you were slow and clumsy. You got hit with it or dropped the ball often. Your brain had to attempt to solve complex spatial relations calculations in real time and simultaneously control your arm and body to make the catch. Your conscious mind was not up to the task because it is slow, very slow considering the speeds of the world we live in.<\/p>\n

    Over time you got better at it. The reason for this is simple, more and more of the processing was being encoded into your brains physical structure by the process of learning. As those items were thus encoded they became a subroutine or reflex that your conscious mind could call upon. These reflexes run much, much faster than your conscious mind. the more that gets encoded the more your brain has left to handle the rest of the problem.<\/p>\n

    In the end, the entire process of catching a ball became automated. once that happens you can catch balls all day while using your conscious mind to do a multitude of other tasks like listening to music or holding a conversation – or making decisions about where to throw the ball once you catch it to win a baseball game. It goes further, once you have that reflex then it becomes generalized. Not only can you catch a baseball but your body will quickly react to catch a wide range of “semi ball like objects”. <\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

    Once a response is ingrained it often lies at least partially outside the control of the conscious mind. Often it takes extreme concentration by the conscious mind to suppress or alter this reflex and that concentration is difficult in times of stress or multiple demands. The result is that you will often do things that you might know<\/i> are bad for you if you have a reflex to do them.<\/p>\n

    Want to test it? I can hold up a grenade and show it to you. I can tell you it will kill you and that you want to run away from it. The odds are strong that if I distract you slightly or allow a time to elapse that you would catch that grenade if I threw it to you.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

    Response<\/b><\/u><\/p>\n

    \n

    Regarding 1<\/u>: <\/p>\n

    \n

    The underlying assumption is a false one. The concept that adult humans always act in the correct manner and do not need to be corrected or punished is a false one on it’s face. Our society is built on the realization that rules require enforcement and that even “men of good conscience” will sometimes go astray if those consequences are not in place. Next time you get a speeding or parking ticket you would do well to remember that it is <\/i> a punishment intended to dissuade you from similar acts in the future.<\/p>\n

    The ancillary argument is that it is different when one is thinking of obeying a dominant. That due to it’s nature the relationship of a submissive to a dominant should be one so focused that comparison to a parking ticket is specious. Another analogy presents itself then; even among the most holy true believers there is temptation and an occasional fall or failure despite their devotion.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

    Regarding 2<\/u>: <\/p>\n

    \n

    This may be true or false… in reality is it of no real consequence. Often when a human punishes themselves or feels guilt for an action they have made similar mistakes in the past – felt similar guilt and pains. While they may truly believe that this self punishment is the most effective deterrent the observable realities are counter to the belief. Humans often have blind spots or repeated patterns shaped by deep personality constructs that are outside of their conscious ability to change; or are within their ability to change but such change is inefficient for the purposes of the dominant.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

    Regarding 3<\/u>: <\/p>\n

    \n

    There is certainly some truth here for certain subsets of the infraction space. Certainly the willful disobedience of a submissive should be something investigated by the dominant for signs of a mismatch in the relationship or the loyalties and commitment of the submissive. However, it is not true that disobedience is the only possible instigation for punishment nor is it always true that what the submissive considers to be a good reason for disobedience actually is<\/i>.<\/p>\n

    Disobedience can be the result of a number of factors ranging from a relationship failure to a fundamental flaw in the factors that shape the submissives decision making processes. Many of these factors can respond rather well to punishment of the appropriate type and in many cases punishment is the most efficient way to alter those structures.<\/p>\n

    An example<\/u>: <\/p>\n

    As a  martial arts instructor one of the things I must teach is the proper method of positioning ones body to be able to defend against an incoming blow. Of this one of the hardest things to instill in adults and children alike is that they must keep their hands up to be effective with our style. If they drop their hands then they will be vulnerable and they will be hit in the face.<\/p>\n

    \n

    I can explain this to them.
    I can show this to them.
    I can praise them for keeping their hands up (reward)<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

    After all that, a portion of those people will still drop their hands<\/b> during a sparring session because they feel<\/i> faster or more nimble in that position. <\/p>\n

    \n

    Are these adults immature? No.
    Are they stupid? No.
    Do they lack respect for me as their teacher? No.
    Do they lack respect for our Sensei? No.
    Do they lack dedication? No.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

    What is the cause of the problem then? Simple. They are dealing with a complex and often unfamiliar situation that is overwhelming their conscious minds ability to process. The result of this is that their mind is “farming out” responsibility for some of their responses to deeper reflexes or instincts to free up conscious attention to handle the problems of defense and response. In other words, they have had to allow some things to go on “auto pilot”. <\/p>\n

    Another possibility is also seen. They already have deeply reflexes or neural pathways that encode a different response to this problem. Maybe it is a response ingrained by a previous Sensei or style. In this case, under the stress and complexities of combat they may simply not have the available concentration to over-ride the reflex and do everything else needed of them.<\/p>\n

    In my experience a large portion of these students will not alter that response until they get hit in the face a few times (punishment) by their opponent. This punishment drastically raises the priority of altering that response or forming a new one and they will assign much more conscious brain power to making that change.<\/p>\n

    Rewarding them for keeping their hands up does not<\/u> fix this problem nearly as efficiently as the negative re-enforcement of being hit in the face for keeping their hands down.<\/b><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

    Regarding 4<\/u>: <\/p>\n

    \n

    The simple observable reality is that punishment often does work for a large set of behavioral issues and problems. Rewarding and positive re-enforcement is clinically shown to be a more effective means of altering a subset of the behavioral domain but that subset is not all inclusive. Specifically rewards are good for creating and adding behaviors to a response patter or decision tree but it a very poor method for removing existing behaviors or decision factors. <\/p>\n

    The closer one comes to the alteration of deeply ingrained responses the more effective negative re-enforcement becomes.  Our earliest neural pathways and learning experiences are often negative re-enforcement and these patters are strongly shaped… the effectiveness of a negative consequence is a essential part of how we learn and develop.<\/p>\n

    For this document it is not necessary for you to be convinced that negative re-enforcement (punishment) is a superior method to reward. It is only necessary for you to let go of the fiction that negative consequences are ineffective teachers. Certainly some things are better accomplished with the reward system… but not everything.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

    Regarding 5<\/u>: <\/p>\n

    \n

    This is an easy one. If the desires and orders of the dominant in a  relationship closely match the natural responses of the submissive then there will be little area where the demands of the dominant are in conflict with the internal demands of the submissive in question. In such a utopia there would never be a mistake or lapse that would require correction or alteration.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

    Regarding 6<\/u>: <\/p>\n

    \n

    This one is the synthesis or some of the previous ideas and it comes down to this. If an adult submissive is by definition one who would never willfully disobey then any instance of disobedience would be a mistake in communication or an error in the submissives evaluation of the proper actions. Combined with a common belief that it is unfair or unwise to punish a submissive for an “innocent mistake” the result is a relationship where errors are made but never classified as something that will be punished.<\/p>\n

     I disagree with several of the underlying concepts but let me take specific issue with the ethical argument. <\/p>\n

    I consider it perfectly ethical to punish a submissive for “innocent” errors<\/i>. <\/b><\/p>\n

    The method, manner and severity of the punishment is of course not the same for what I consider a “well meaning” offense than it would be for one with a darker motive the fact remains that I may well decide to punish them.<\/p>\n

    The reason is simple. If their motives are pure then I can identify the cause of the error to a flaw in either the method the submissive uses to make decisions or to an underlying internal pressure or pattern that skewed or disrupted the processing that resulted in that decision. In either case this is something I wish to alter or correct, punishment is one way to do that.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<\/blockquote>\n

    Conclusion<\/b><\/u><\/p>\n

    \n

    It seems to me that as with many other issues in our community ones stance on this issue is related to how they view BDSM relationships and what they consider to be acceptable motives for those relationships. In fact it is interwoven with some of the discussions inside our community on the topic of training as a whole.  I can only respond for myself and my own motives.<\/p>\n

    I train submissives to become a human extension of their dominants will and desires, a human tool. This tool is useful because of it’s ability to respond and react to situations that may require decision making and discretionary action. The most useful servants can be given complex instructions to be carried out to the letter or they can be given broad guidelines of intent and left to interpret those as they see fit in a given situation. <\/p>\n

    Many of the requirements placed on a human tool are counter-intuitive or are in conflict with patterns and reflexes that were already in place. In order to maximize their usefulness to those they serve those reflexes and patterns must be altered or enhanced. Often those alterations must happen at a level deeper than conscious decision making or logic and punishment is a very effective method of making those changes.<\/p>\n

    If the requirements that a dominant places on a submissive are not ones that require an alteration of those responses then they may well never need to be trained or punished. Indeed for many non service relationships it is the case where “training” is a synonym for scene play and “punishment” is a fine humorous excuse for a spanking. <\/p>\n

    For those relationships that seek to alter the reflexes and patterns of the submissive to enhance their value as a tool or servant however the changes needed may be dramatic. While it is always possible that one will come across a servant who’s existing responses are perfectly suited for their dominants usage of them it is an exceedingly rare instance. Much more common is the situation where a particular servant is imperfect in their responses but has advantages that make it worth the time and effort to alter the offending responses rather than forego the advantages of that particular servant and search for another candidate.<\/p>\n

     <\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

    Punishment and Correction in the Training and Shaping of Human Tools [Draft 1]   Introduction I am fairly active inside the BDSM community, both online and off and am often a witness or participant in discussions and debates on a wide variety of topics. Often I comment on these in a  shortened form by posting […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":3,"featured_media":53168,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"aside","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[278],"tags":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"http:\/\/legacyiamsenseiken.local\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/50806"}],"collection":[{"href":"http:\/\/legacyiamsenseiken.local\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"http:\/\/legacyiamsenseiken.local\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/legacyiamsenseiken.local\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/3"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/legacyiamsenseiken.local\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=50806"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"http:\/\/legacyiamsenseiken.local\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/50806\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/legacyiamsenseiken.local\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/53168"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"http:\/\/legacyiamsenseiken.local\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=50806"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/legacyiamsenseiken.local\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=50806"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/legacyiamsenseiken.local\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=50806"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}